Kynan C.
Admin
You might send him a PM via Conversation. Folks can miss a post.
Pantera II Vetter copy
- Thread starter Dave Ireland
- Start date
You might send him a PM via Conversation. Folks can miss a post.
Dave Ireland
Vetter Aficionado
I've been looking at the Skidmarks site and wondered if it were the same one - they're a bit sparse on detail. Price isn't too bad, though.
As far as memory serves, the Renaults that used those lights were the R10, 12 and some 16s. They were outstanding, but sold greviously short as they were fitted with 45W tungsten bulbs. At the time (and still) you could get halogen bulbs with the P45(?) base to fit the lamps, which made a huge difference and turned the headlights into the class-leaders they always should have been. At the time, halogen bulbs were still quite expensive and most owners either didn't know about this tweak or simply didn't bother because of the cost.
Barry3314
Grasshopper
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2016
- Messages
- 6
- Reaction score
- 5
- Points
- 3
You mentioned about the radio hump in the fairing. This is the lockable cover that goes over the radio. I also paid for the manual headlight adjuster, which sat on the right hand side just below the side cover, and a pair of top class Cibie spot lights which were mounted just under the side light/indicators, mirrors. Looked the same as the despatch bike in an earlier post. Pantera also colour matched to the deep burgundy of my GL1100. All in all I seem to remember it costing about £500 - £600. The wiring connector is still available from RS electronics. Just bought a new one. A few repairs to be done where some theiving toe rag ripped the spot lights out in about 1990 but will soon be going back on my Goldwing which is now a trike. Will put a picture up when its done
Dave Ireland
Vetter Aficionado
Now, I didn't know about the radio cover. They'll be like hens' teeth nowadays though, but now I know what it looks like, I might spot something at an autojumble or ebay.
The other handy things are the instrument moulded blank spots - no need to buy an additional console for them.
There must be more Pantera IIs out there, as I suspect it sold reasonably well, compared to the imported price of the Vetters.
The other handy things are the instrument moulded blank spots - no need to buy an additional console for them.
There must be more Pantera IIs out there, as I suspect it sold reasonably well, compared to the imported price of the Vetters.
Barry3314
Grasshopper
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2016
- Messages
- 6
- Reaction score
- 5
- Points
- 3
View attachment 2179
Finally took a photo of it at a trike rally last weekend. Forgot to mention it has a headlight adjuster on the lower right panel of the console. Looks quite smart if I do say so myself
Dave Ireland
Vetter Aficionado
View attachment 2179
Finally took a photo of it at a trike rally last weekend. Forgot to mention it has a headlight adjuster on the lower right panel of the console. Looks quite smart if I do say so myself
That's very nice, indeed.
Goldies and Vetters / Goldies and Panteras just went together so naturally.
I've just been offered an RT-faired Beemer, so that puts the Pantera-on-the-XJ to the back burner for a while, as the Beemer will be the perfect winter bike for me. I'll get around to the Pantera eventually though, as I want to have the XJ all-weather ready should I need it to be, and the little half-fairing, while good over 95mph, isn't much use in the cold and rain, and certainly not at that speed in the winter.
Dave Ireland
Vetter Aficionado
Right, that's a very appealing combination.Now converted back to a solo with an LED headlight conversion and LED marker lights in the fairing. Toured France towing a trailer with in in October 2017.
View attachment 2535
I've been caught on the hop this winter, with some top-end work needing done to the GS and the XJ is woefully inadequate in this weather. Seeing yours has lit the fire again, and the Pantera is definitely going on the XJ. Handily enough, the Pantera paint is in good order and just the right colour - black, to match the bike.
The Beemer I was offered fell through, so that's out of the picture now. I'm in the ridiculous situation of four bikes sitting here and only two running, and of them only one is faired at all, and quite inadequately at that.
Next winter will be different.
Dave Ireland
Vetter Aficionado
Finally got around to rebuilding the Suzuki top end and as the finishing touch before it goes back on the road, the Pantera II is now properly mounted and being wired up.
The PO's or PO's dealer's attempts to wire it up was tragic. The simple task of connecting two indicators, two sidelights and a headlamp involved the use of SIX Scotchloks. I got annoyed trying to work with that mess and just ripped the lot out and started from scratch. It will make a difference, riding down the road in the dark and not worrying about dodgy connections plunging me into total blackness.
The PO's or PO's dealer's attempts to wire it up was tragic. The simple task of connecting two indicators, two sidelights and a headlamp involved the use of SIX Scotchloks. I got annoyed trying to work with that mess and just ripped the lot out and started from scratch. It will make a difference, riding down the road in the dark and not worrying about dodgy connections plunging me into total blackness.
Dave Ireland
Vetter Aficionado
And I eventually got it rolled out of the workshop yesterday. Needs some finalising, as the Vetter bracket and Pantera fairing, though very close, aren't a perfect match for this bike. The bracket is the one that was on before, but this fairing sits a bit higher than the Vetter, and the base angle is slightly down, so the headlight adjustment runs out of room. Easily remedied, though.
I was able to re-use the Vetter screen though, and because the Pantera is higher, the screeen that was bordering on being too short on the Windjammer is now a better height for me.
The lights work well, as I suspected they would - that Cibie headlight is perfect for the LED conversion and the beam pattern is beautiful; when I get the proper adjustment range back it will be great. When the auxiliaries are on, the whole road is lit up nicely. Only had time for some short testing last night, but results are good.
I was able to re-use the Vetter screen though, and because the Pantera is higher, the screeen that was bordering on being too short on the Windjammer is now a better height for me.
The lights work well, as I suspected they would - that Cibie headlight is perfect for the LED conversion and the beam pattern is beautiful; when I get the proper adjustment range back it will be great. When the auxiliaries are on, the whole road is lit up nicely. Only had time for some short testing last night, but results are good.
Dave Ireland
Vetter Aficionado
Replaced the auxiliary lights with some better ones. Even in this age of compact LED lighting, I still think there's a lot to be said for a decent reflector area. Projector lighting is good, but good ones are expensive - although some fairly good ones have been fitted to high-end cars for some years now, and the local car breaker might have some lights worth looking at for another project (pun unintended).
Anyway, these new auxiliary lights are Raydyot Fireball H1 spotlights from the '70s and '80s, but what I always knew about them was that a 7" reflector could easily fit in the shell, and allow it to function as a full headlight with main and dip. So, that's what I did.
The bike now has three headlights and the beauty of it is, all three can be run without over-taxing the standard alternator, because they're fitted with H4 LED conversion bulbs, carefully chosen to to match the filament placing of the original tungsten halogen bulbs.
The two extras can be slaved to the main light, high-ing and low-ing as necessary, or can be un-slaved and run independently, which might be useful if the main light fails at any time.
Anyway, these new auxiliary lights are Raydyot Fireball H1 spotlights from the '70s and '80s, but what I always knew about them was that a 7" reflector could easily fit in the shell, and allow it to function as a full headlight with main and dip. So, that's what I did.
The bike now has three headlights and the beauty of it is, all three can be run without over-taxing the standard alternator, because they're fitted with H4 LED conversion bulbs, carefully chosen to to match the filament placing of the original tungsten halogen bulbs.
The two extras can be slaved to the main light, high-ing and low-ing as necessary, or can be un-slaved and run independently, which might be useful if the main light fails at any time.
Scott-E
Vetter Aficionado
One thing to keep in mind when switching to LED headlight bulbs is the way a stator and it's regulator work together.
The stator is producing full power output all the time except at idle if it's a standard (for motorcycle's) rotating magnet type. The regulator feeds power to everything using it and turns the extra unused power into heat and blows it off through the heat sink. Greatly reducing power use can be really hard on the regulator as it struggles to blow off that excess power. I'm not saying you are going to burn up your regulator because I have no idea how it was designed and what limits it has. Automotive alternators regulate power by controlling the field voltage winding. They can handle a zero load easily but a motorcycle stator and regulator use a totally different design. Of course running all three of your lights together may draw somewhere around 35 watts so I'm sure your regulator could handle that amount of load just fine.
The stator is producing full power output all the time except at idle if it's a standard (for motorcycle's) rotating magnet type. The regulator feeds power to everything using it and turns the extra unused power into heat and blows it off through the heat sink. Greatly reducing power use can be really hard on the regulator as it struggles to blow off that excess power. I'm not saying you are going to burn up your regulator because I have no idea how it was designed and what limits it has. Automotive alternators regulate power by controlling the field voltage winding. They can handle a zero load easily but a motorcycle stator and regulator use a totally different design. Of course running all three of your lights together may draw somewhere around 35 watts so I'm sure your regulator could handle that amount of load just fine.
Dave Ireland
Vetter Aficionado
The standard shunt-type regulator runs the stator at full belt all the time and shunts back the unused current to the stator windings, by a clever design utilising the characteristics of a three-phase outlay. Unfortunately, this means the stator has to deal with a triple-whammy of heat.
1. The heat of the engine oil
2. The heat of generating power at 100%
3. The heat of shunted power being shoved back into it.
The shunt regulator was an answer to a problem that Suzuki had at the time -how to use a cheaply-made PM alternator and control it with current consumer grade electronics. Anything fancier would have been expensive and way over the needs of the market for these bikes.
The shunt regulator answered their problem - for a while. It got the bikes off the showroom floor and lasted long enough to get the bikes out of the warranty period. If the subsequent owner was lucky, it lasted him, too. The third and remaining owners usually weren't lucky. By the time a few years passed, the connections in the charging system were showing their age and started to overheat, leading to the demise of the battery as the reg-rec tried to overcharge it and then the regulator would die often taking the stator with it.
This is why Suzuki only ran the bike on two of the three stator windings when the headlight was off, and why the third winding came in with the headlamp switch. It was an attempt to limit generated heat load on the windings. It worked, to an extent, but wasn't guaranteed to last.
However, there are some owners who've always run with a headlight load (daytime headlights in the US, for example) and they've been lucky to escape terminal stator and regulator damage.
All that is now solved with the advent of the series regulator, which simply cuts off the charging current at the voltage set-point (14.5V) and the inbuilt quenching and damping arrangements of the reg-rec deal with back emf and transients. These power electronics weren't available at any sort of sensible, reliable price or specification forty years ago.
I've been using a Shindengen SH-775 for several years now and just for gits and shiggles, I've deliberately been running an old stator that would have died by now if it had still been coupled to a conventional shunt regulator. It's surviving fine, so far, after about 20K miles.
The beauty of the series regulator is that I can treat the stator just like a field-coil generator and leave it unloaded, or put whatever loads I like onto it (subject to its max, of course) without worrrying about whether it's going to burn out today or next week.
1. The heat of the engine oil
2. The heat of generating power at 100%
3. The heat of shunted power being shoved back into it.
The shunt regulator was an answer to a problem that Suzuki had at the time -how to use a cheaply-made PM alternator and control it with current consumer grade electronics. Anything fancier would have been expensive and way over the needs of the market for these bikes.
The shunt regulator answered their problem - for a while. It got the bikes off the showroom floor and lasted long enough to get the bikes out of the warranty period. If the subsequent owner was lucky, it lasted him, too. The third and remaining owners usually weren't lucky. By the time a few years passed, the connections in the charging system were showing their age and started to overheat, leading to the demise of the battery as the reg-rec tried to overcharge it and then the regulator would die often taking the stator with it.
This is why Suzuki only ran the bike on two of the three stator windings when the headlight was off, and why the third winding came in with the headlamp switch. It was an attempt to limit generated heat load on the windings. It worked, to an extent, but wasn't guaranteed to last.
However, there are some owners who've always run with a headlight load (daytime headlights in the US, for example) and they've been lucky to escape terminal stator and regulator damage.
All that is now solved with the advent of the series regulator, which simply cuts off the charging current at the voltage set-point (14.5V) and the inbuilt quenching and damping arrangements of the reg-rec deal with back emf and transients. These power electronics weren't available at any sort of sensible, reliable price or specification forty years ago.
I've been using a Shindengen SH-775 for several years now and just for gits and shiggles, I've deliberately been running an old stator that would have died by now if it had still been coupled to a conventional shunt regulator. It's surviving fine, so far, after about 20K miles.
The beauty of the series regulator is that I can treat the stator just like a field-coil generator and leave it unloaded, or put whatever loads I like onto it (subject to its max, of course) without worrrying about whether it's going to burn out today or next week.
Dave Ireland
Vetter Aficionado
I've been meaning to turn my headlight Selective Yellow for some time, and finally got around to it. Two coats of glass paint and a coat of polyurethane varnish to add some protection and here we go. The light loss that's inevitable (about 15 to 20%) is more than compensated for by the LED H4 bulb within. The two aux lamps are unpainted and will probably remain so.
The reason for going yellow is nothing more than some added conspicuity, but it will perhaps pay off in foggy conditions,;though I'm unlikely to go out in that, I may find myself in fog coming back at some time.
The reason for going yellow is nothing more than some added conspicuity, but it will perhaps pay off in foggy conditions,;though I'm unlikely to go out in that, I may find myself in fog coming back at some time.
Similar threads
